Storytelling and communication skills are the ultimate career advantage with Matt Eventoff of Princeton Public Speaking

Maren Kate
Howdy folks, Maren Kate here. My guest today is Matt Eventoff, and I'm super excited to chat with him. He is an expert communications trainer, who has worked one on one with famous founders, executives and professionals to help them find their voice and communicate authentically. And that was one of the reasons I was incredibly excited to get Matt on the show. And to also just learn how, especially in this economy, as where not only future proofing our career, but looking for new roles, how we can tap into that. So Matt, you know, just to get started, what's your story? How did you get here?

Matt Eventoff
Thank you, Maren. And that was that was some intro, please, you could intro me anywhere, anytime. I'm not sure I'm deserving of that. So I started like most people started, I started as a kid in the suburbs, who liked music and was trying to find my own identity. And I listened to a lot of music and in listening to that music at a young age. I picked up an Iron Maiden album. And beginning of the song Aces High was Winston Churchill, giving one of his most famous addresses of all time, and everything in my being seemed to exhibit goosebumps. As he spoke, I couldn't even fully process what he was saying I didn't even understand the complexities of what he was facing at that point in time. But boy, did I feel the power in his words, and what he was saying, and that caused a lifelong fascination with Winston Churchill and with the power of spoken word.

Maren Kate
How old were you at that point?

Matt Eventoff
Either 11 or 12.

Maren Kate
Wow. So what did that look like career wise? What did you do after high school?

Matt Eventoff
You know, it's just like everybody, I was trying to find my own identity. And, I had a path just like every preteen and teen that was challenging in its own way, just like everybody. And I found that I had tremendous power in my voice. And I found while there were many things outside of my control, and outside of what I could really do, I found that I could have a tremendous impact with my voice and my ability to use my voice, whether it was to advocate for myself to advocate for things that I believed in, in class in school. And so I just started, really just talking and practicing, and really learning on my own. But at that point in time, my focus in my head, I wanted to be an elected official, I wanted to be a politician. I grew up wanting to be a politician. So I decided that I was going to utilize those tools to become an elected official. And obviously, that didn't happen. But what did happen is, as I went through school, I started working in politics, and I found that my sweet spot in politics was helping elected officials find their voices, and become more comfortable speaking and become more comfortable finding their voice that then manifested, as everyone's career does, into a journey where I worked my way through politics, I set up my own small shop, doing exactly what I do now, doing communication training for elected officials and candidates. I had an opportunity to work with a senior executive at a company. And that was my first foray into corporate America, I loved it. And I really love the ability to effectuate change within an organization and to help an executive who creates jobs and who was creating jobs and creating opportunities find his voice and further development. And then it just kind of rolled from there. And I was very blessed and very fortunate.

Maren Kate
There's so much there. So in terms of, especially now, especially speaking to people that maybe they're in their career, but thinking about a change, or maybe they're actively looking right now, how do you, and I know it's hard to say ,the short version, but how would you if you were just giving someone advice at a bar cafe and they they hadn't spent much time on personal positioning or finding their voice, like how does one go about that, especially, when you're looking for work?

Matt Eventoff
Well, it's interesting, right, so again, going back to Winston Churchill, one of one of my favorite quotes, I have about 1000 favorite, well, that's an exaggeration. Countless favorite quotes from Winston Churchill, one of my favorites is the following and that is “There is nothing like oratory, it is a skill that can turn a commenter into a King.” And I view myself very much a commoner. Throughout my whole life, and I certainly haven't evolved with the way Sir Winston Churchill demonstrated in that quote and the way he did, but I think in this market and in this environment, we all tend to have a lot of thoughts all day long. And we've all seen the behavioral and the social science studies that show just the sheer magnitude of thoughts we have in our own heads and the fact that many of them, if not most of them, have a negative bent to them. And I think, one of the challenges in finding your own voice is getting past the fact that other people might not like that voice. What it sounds like and having to fit it into a box, I find that when I talk to someone, and they go through their job application or their resume, people tend to do it in a linear fashion and go through I did this, and then I did this, and then I did this, and then I did this, what I like to ask people always is okay, that's great. That's wonderful. Tell me your story. And by the way, taking no pride of ownership on that, too. I've learned that by by virtue of having phenomenal mentors throughout my entire life. They all started out older than me. Now, some are older, some are my age, and some are even younger. And one thing that two different individuals did for me when I was younger was asked me exactly that. So that's great. That's what you want to do. But what's your story? Tell me about why are you you? How did it happen? And finding that connective tissue within the resume, or the application to make it more of a story. So one of the things I always do, because I really believe in messaging, you know Maren, from past conversations, one of the things I always do in messaging, and I think it's so important is, I always ask myself before I have a conversation, okay, Matt, before you talk to this person, you're about to talk to them about public speaking. And the person you're talking to is very busy, and has a lot of things going on in life, just like everybody. And they might forget most if not everything that you say so Matt, if they're gonna forget everything, what's the one thing you need them to remember? And why should they care? And I always ask myself that question before any phone call before any meeting before any presentation, because I speak a lot publicly. And I say, okay, these are very busy people, right, whether it's a group of executives that I'm speaking to, or it's through through my nonprofit in the evening, speaking to kids, teaching them the same skills. Kids are probably as busy if not busier than the adults at this point in terms of the sheer scheduling and number of things coming at them at once. So you have a limited, people have a limited amount that they can listen to. And you always have to remember, as a communicator, the information when I'm communicating, is going to be in that moment, infinitely more important to me than it is to the person who's receiving it, because I know it, I've been studying it, I've been preparing for it, and I've been preparing to deliver it. So I can't expect that they're going to hear it with the same way that I'm delivering. And so I really want to make sure that there is no doubt when they go through it. What is the one thing I need them to remember? What do I need them to remember? And why should they care? Not why do they care? Because I just assumed that they don't. Not in a negative way at all. I just assume again, I'm combating what anybody else delivering a message is combating. And that is the studies, I don't even think the studies can keep up with the sheer magnitude of messaging that is coming at individuals on a daily basis.

Maren Kate
When you think of the job search process, especially a hiring manager, or whoever you're talking to, an interview or a founder, whoever it is, they're getting even more bombarded because they're having to process through all of these candidates, all these applicants now, because we went from six months ago, an incredibly low unemployment economy to one where we have, I think 15 20% right now. So it seems that what's the one thing this person needs to remember? And why should they care is even more important, especially when people are asking for a raise or trying to get a new position or applying for a whole new job. That seems so vital, because everyone is just almost have this information fatigue coming in.

Matt Eventoff
Well, it's it's exhausting. We're all, especially in this pandemic era, that we're living in. We have new information coming out about the pandemic on a daily basis, which is something that pre 2020 none of us have had been conditioned for or used to on top of everything else. When you're talking about that hiring manager or the talent executive or the person, the executor herself or himself who's actually hiring a report. They're also processing everything that you're saying in an interview, while also going through, how am I going to get along with this individual? How will this individual work with my team? How will we work in this distributed fashion, and the list goes on. So I think it's really important, again, the other reason I like to ask those questions of myself, and I use them as my frame, Maren. It's as much for me as the presenter, or in this case, as if I were looking for employment and I was in an interview, I would be doing it as much for me as the interviewee as I would be doing it for the interviewer. And the why for that is, it helps focus my mind. So when you were asked a question, tell me about yourself or walk me through your resume? It's a pretty overwhelming question.

Maren Kate
Yeah, you could answer it 1000 ways.

Matt Eventoff
And then it could go from five minutes to five days. So I like to ask myself those questions, because it centers my mind. I say, Okay, I want this person to know that I am super passionate about communication and the fact that communication levels playing fields, not my words, Winston Churchill's words, and history has shown it. Right. So why would that matter to an individual? Because I would venture to guess, if not all, nearly all individuals want to present their best self on a regular basis, why wouldn't you?

Maren Kate
Yeah, and especially when you're trying to get something.

Matt Eventoff
I think the other reason, I like asking that question, and again, this is your area of expertise, not mine. But as someone who's who's hired people before, I really want to know about someone, not just their work experience, not just their educational achievements. Not just their accolades, not just their honors, I want to know about them. Because it's really hard to summarize one's entire entirety on a page or two pages, or three pages or four pages.

Maren Kate
So if you're going for a job, you're in your interview, especially, right now, taking that framework, I would say it's like the one thing you want the hiring manager to remember is probably something tied into the skills you have that will solve their particular problem.

Matt Eventoff
No, I think it could be skills, it could be a certain value that you hold.

Maren Kate
Okay, like, if your value is really aligned with the company.

Matt Eventoff
Correct or a characteristic about you that makes you unique?

Maren Kate
And then the why should they care is probably tied into some way that because of that value, because of that skill, because of that experience, you can solve their pain point that they're looking to solve in this role.

Matt Eventoff
Correct. You can help them you can help them solve it. I always say just for myself as a communication trainer, right, as if I'm training you. I often prepare speakers before major speeches. And something that most people are surprised by when I tell them is I often then don't watch the speech live, I'll often be in the same location. Oftentimes, I won't watch it live, I'll actually sit outside of whether it's a conference area or it's an auditorium, I'll sit on the outside. Because before I actually watch the speech and provide my own critique, I want to ask people who are coming out at an intermission or a break. What did you like? What did you think? What did you learn? What worked? Because I'm not the audience. I'm the trainer. I'm not the audience. I'm not the one that that person is presenting to. So I want to see because that really shows if the messaging stuck. If someone was able to carry it forward.

Maren Kate
Yeah absolutely, because that person, it's not in their head but if they took the messaging they understood the one takeaway. I'm thinking in terms of job seekers, it almost seems like it would be incredibly valuable for someone to figure out what that one thing is they want to communicate. Let's say they're going for a digital marketing role. And then the why someone should care, that's going to change job by job. But it almost seems like if you could talk to strangers and kind of position yourself as a professional, and then get their honest feedback, what do you think you heard? That would be incredibly valuable because they're not in your head.

Matt Eventoff
I think feedback is invaluable for exactly every reason you just said, but I also think feedback is something that you have to be careful with, because I've worked with a number of folks in the past who have received feedback that was very very general. And I would posit it as inaccurate and negative. And the person who received it really took it to heart and made substantive changes. Something that you said earlier really, really resonated with me. And I think it's so important, especially when you're talking about job seekers, and especially in a market like this, where there are so many unbelievably talented people who are amazing at what they do out there, Being able to solve someone's pain point or problem is so critical, and too much messaging, and when people are worried about communication, it's too much I, I, I. I love the idea of researching the company that you're going to work with, the role. What folks have done in that role previously. Where that organization's strengths are, and how you can benefit them. It's so important, This is how I can I can provide benefit to the organization. This is how I can make the organization stronger.

Maren Kate
What people tend to do is, we do the opposite, we lead with I, we. I always see this when people are applying for remote roles. Someone will say, Why do you want this role, and they're like, oh, I want to work remote. As a hiring manager, as the company, I don't care if you want to work remote. I’ve got these goals and these problems to solve, that's the the how of the work, but I want to know why you want to do this job at this company. So yeah, just approaching it from how you can benefit the company or the position is so much more impactful. And it's kind of amazing how few people do it. It's so interesting, one of the questions I have here is something I've been thinking about a lot is, how people can future proof their career? The next 10 or 20, or even 30 years? Depending on how old you are, how long you're going to work, we've already seen a ton of change in the last 20 years. But we're going to see even more rapid change with technology with automation. And it seems like of all the conversation I've had, especially this one, and with remote work, like remote work communication is one of the key tenants, a lot of it's written, but some of its verbal, but if you're not a strong communicator, no matter what you're good at, it makes it very hard to work remotely, the written word has come back in, in remote work, in all of our instant messaging. So outside of communication and becoming a strong communicator or writer, what are the skill sets or traits you think that people will need to future proof their career in the next two or three decades?

Matt Eventoff
Well, I do it with the quotes around them, because I don't believe the use of the word is appropriate. I think it's communication along with other quote unquote, soft skills. But I don't think those skills are are soft, I think, as you've said, people like to work with people. We call them teams, right? We work with teams, whether they're remote teams or in person, people like to work with people and I think being able to understand people, having empathy for people, I think communication is, and it's what I teach so, I obviously feel very strongly about it. But I think another skill and one that I work on every day, and I've certainly not mastered, I hope to before I pass, but it's hard, but I get better at it every day is active listening. Some of the most influential people I've worked with and met are people who forget what they say, their ability to listen and really listen to what you're saying, not just the words that are coming out of your mouth, but what you're really saying. And how they can help. I think people who are present in the moment, we've all heard about different leaders, whether it's a founder, whether it's a former president, whether they’re addressing you, it felt like I was the only person in the room. Right, and I think there's a reason people repeat that constantly about about other people. It's because people you encounter that do that aren't aren't frequent. It's not constant. And it's really impactful when it happens. I think in interviews, one of the interesting things is I love watching it, and I've heard from people who have gone on interviews who have asked me really interesting questions, questions like, when you were my age, whether I'm a fit for this position or not, when you were my age, if you were interviewing for this position, whether I get it or not, what advice would you give me? My 25 year old self or 35? So see, to me, that's feedback that's invaluable because I look at the one thing about being older, as you get older is you've made a lot more mistakes, right? Every year, you get older, I always like to say I've made 100 mistakes, I've made 1000 mistakes, I've made 2000 mistakes, whatever mistakes I've made, and those were all learning experiences. So being able to take advantage of those within interviews, I think is important because learning from what other people did, not just the successes, but the things that didn't work. To me, it’s the things that didn't work are often more valuable. But I think to future proof your career, it's working on those empathetic traits. How do you connect with people? How have you, how do you utilize? How do you think creatively? How do you think outside of the box? How do you maximize your skills? I'll give you an example, Maren, right now we're on Zoom right, most of us communicate with the world through five senses. Obviously some people might be challenged on one sense. And then we often find that they have heightened experiences with other senses, but most of it right is sight or sound, touch, taste, smell. Fair?

Maren Kate
Yep, for sure.

Matt Eventoff
So on Zoom, I don't want to pick on Zoom, because it could be Zoom, FaceTime, WebEx, whoever you want to pick, you're staring at a camera on the screen. So I would argue that sight is different, because context is different when you're working around other individuals, or when you're working in different environments, the context changes especially if one is a remote worker and you're working from your office all day, the context doesn't tend to change. Sound is coming at you the same way. Right now I'm using, AirPods, which are terrific. Terrific shout out right there. Terrific. But I can almost hear too well with them. And what I mean by that is all of the extraneous sounds that are occurring, whether it's my puppy purring underneath me, it's the fire in the fireplace crackling, I can’t hear, I can just hear you, which is amazing. It gives me an amazing focus. But again, I lose some of that context. I can't smell, I can't taste. You can't taste Zoom, you can't smell Zoom. And you can't really feel a Zoom call. Being able to be descriptive when you talk about things utilizing those other senses, being able to understand those other senses, being able to heighten those other senses so that you can be more understanding of other people and what they're experiencing. I think that not only makes us innately human, I don't know about future proofing, but I think I think people like to work with people they like.

Maren Kate
Yeah, absolutely

Matt Eventoff
I don't say that as a popularity contest. I mean, it's people that they like, right? I know you well, Maren, you know me well. We have many, many different friends that would fit in many, many different social circles, which is terrific. That's what makes life vibrant and beautiful, and why we're both very lucky and blessed. But being able to relate to different people and their experiences, I think are so important. This year has been such an intense year so far on so many levels for so many reasons. I think being able to understand other people and being able to relate, maybe not to the exact situation that they're living through, but to relate to what they're feeling emotionally, and understand it, and have empathy for it to me. I think that is something that will be…

Maren Kate
It's not going away, it’s only going to be more needed.

Matt Eventoff
And I don't know that it's replicable.

Maren Kate
True. But I do think honestly that is probably one of the main things, if you're not going to get replaced in the new economy. I think there's two things, I think it's the soft skills that you're talking about, and they go hand in hand, the ability to always be curious and always be a constant learner. If you can nail those two, then you'll always, even if, there's insane technologies that come along, even if the world changes even more than it's changed in the last 12 months, you're going to be able to adapt. But if you don't have those things, especially as the world goes more online, as there's more robotics and automation, that's going to be the one thing that really defines us from the robots, so to speak, and I think people are going to crave it more. That empathy, that soft skill that being present, that active listening, the more we interact with technology, and don't have that, it's going to be even more important.

Matt Eventoff
The pandemic to me, has really laid it out on the table very clearly. Among the devastation and the heartache and all of the awfulness that has come with COVID, what you really see people yearning for is that human connection, people human connection, whether you work remotely you work in an office, it's that connection, it's that being able to be empathetic with someone and be physically present with someone or maybe not physically present, but have that option to be physically present. And to be able to relate to them and to be connected to them. I can tell you that, in my own experience, over the last few months, I've been able to reconnect with people I haven't spoken to in a long time, and I owe them. But it's because people are craving connection. And I think that's not something that's going away. And again, if I'm right, and I don't know that I am, but if I'm right, and people like to work with people that they like and enjoy being around and can learn from, I think those skills, if there is a way to future proof yourself, that would be the way to do it. And I loved what you said about lifelong learning. I know that's one thing I committed to earlier in the year was to really try to heighten all of my senses by pushing myself to the edge of my comfort zone and learning new skills. And learning how to cook. And these are things that probably sound basic, learning how to draw, and just learning how to tap other areas of my creativity, because I think it makes it makes me better at what I do. But I also think it makes me a better person and better able to relate to everybody around me.

Maren Kate
The more external things that you can learn or look at, or whatever, the more points of view, the more empathy you'll have.The more you'll understand other people. That's great. I love that so much.

Matt Eventoff
Relating back to your original question marks, I know I took it away, so if ultimately, you're trying to show a future employer that you can be part of the solution that either a problem that employer has or a project that employer is working on, being able to understand different people's points of view, where they're coming from being able to actively listen, being able to do research to figure out where an organization is, all of those things put you in a position, to me, where you're putting your best foot forward and then it isn't just a create a credential contest.

Maren Kate
Exactly, yes, it's two people could have the same credentials or background or experience, but if you if you have all those soft skills, and you can bring those to the table and you can really listen and engage you're going to stand out so much more, even more than someone who doesn't have that but maybe has more credentials, so to speak than you. So Matt, you know, obviously there's so much that can be dug into this and it's a short conversation, what resources or books or if people wanted to learn more about how to start developing this suite of soft skills, where would you point them?

Matt Eventoff
It's funny, and it's a great question, so one thing I do is I watch speakers all the time, whether it's Ted Talks, I personally like watching speakers from history. So I will I listen to Churchill quite a bit. I listen to tapes of Dr. King, I find , in in our young 21st century, Malala Yousufzai is just a phenomenal captivating speaker who I listen to. One of my favorite books about public speaking, which is interesting, because I don't think that the term public speaking is even mentioned in it once is On Writing by Stephen King. Yeah, the way Stephen King is able to put a narrative together, carry narratives forward through books, where he’ll write a book and then connect it to a book he writes five books later, the way he thinks about people and their situations and and crafting them. Dan Pink, he's written many books, I'm trying to think about, I can picture the first book he wrote. And there was an anecdote in there, where he said, You know, one way to really think differently about situations is just go to the newsstand and go through magazines and periodicals of things you're not interested in, which is something that I tended to do frequently after that, I found the book riveting on so many levels, when I first read it, but that was something that has really stuck with me, long well over a decade passed, I really liked to read outside of areas of my own experience and expertise.

Maren Kate
Yeah, that's a great one I love that.

Matt Eventoff
I just finished reading about toy trains. I've never owned a toy train. But I found some periodicals that were fascinating at my news stand, which is still open. And I said, this is very, very interesting. And I see the way it changed the way I looked at some things because I had a new knowledge center, and I had new way of looking at things. So I tend to do that I like to watch programs, it's very, very easy for me to go just like everybody else and just go on to programs that I enjoy because I'm familiar with them. But I like to look for things that are unfamiliar. I dedicate about an hour a week, I just search on YouTube for speakers that I probably would never encounter, no one who's famous, no one who's a world leader, but I just like watching speeches and lectures that different professors have given or someone gave at a local club or a local organization to watch how they communicate and say, Oh, if I was advising this person, what do I see? And what can I learn from them from the way they present? I just look for experiences outside of my own.

Maren Kate
I think a modern version of of the newsstand. Or even if maybe your news stand isn’t open or you're in a suburb, is podcasts, there are so many podcasts. And they're so varied. And, we're recording one right now. But at this point, anyone can make a podcast, so you can get really, really niche. I'm sure there are multiple podcasts on toy trains. So if you are interested in something or even if you just want something random to learn about, there's a bunch of fascinating podcasts that are on a variety of topics. And I think that you could almost do like podcast roulette, and pick something and spend 30 minutes and just learn something. So outside of your comfort zone. I think I'm going to do that this afternoon when I take my my daily walk.

Matt Eventoff
That's awesome, another example, right? So I have my little 13 and a half year old puppy, I'm staring at her right now she's looking back at me. I bring it up because you brought up podcasts. About six months ago, I was sitting with her and I said, Okay, I've read all these books about the neuroscience of how I think you think, and how humans think you think. I want to see how this compares to historically how other creatures communicate and that got me going into a different direction and watching different things and I'm watching my puppy, my dog's gestures, and seeing how I would relate that to other animals I've seen and it's exactly what you just said. Learning begets learning. And I think fascination and curiosity begets curiosity and I find that the more I go down that hole of of being curious about something, the more it opens up and unravels or unearths other doors that I haven't thought of before, all of which makes me better at what I what I do in my day job, because again, it gives me a different perspective.

Maren Kate
Yeah, it just goes back to that constant learning or just even simpler, I like to think than constant learning, because that almost sounds a little bit overwhelming. It's just being curious. Why do orchids look like that? And then you just like look into it. So many of us being on lockdown for the last few months, I've noticed I've gotten a lot more curious. And I've learned a lot more. And I've gotten curious about things that I wouldn't have even noticed, in the past and my busy life running around New York, from meetings to meetings, I've just had hours and hours where I have the freedom to stare at a bug or think about things. Matt, this has been so amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and just chatting. I'd love to know, what's the best way for people to find out more about you about what you do?

Matt Eventoff
You can please go either to my website at Princeton public speaking.com or to my nonprofit, the oratoryproject.org. And I'm pretty easy just send an email. And I just really want to thank you for this opportunity, Maren. And this has been a lot of fun. I love doing this, the other beauty is, as you said, I want to give you yet another shout out. I love the free flow of the podcast. Because I think you also learn a lot about communication, listening to two people communicate who aren't in the same room. Where remote work is is somewhat new, or something that they don't have a lot of experience with. I didn't even think about this until we were talking but just watching people communicate via podcasts because that is ultimately it's remote. Very rarely are people in it.

Maren Kate
It's just audio. I mean sometimes it's video too, but it's a totally different skill set. Matt, thank you so much.

Matt Eventoff
Fascinating. Terrific. Thank you Maren.